"Useless Ticks", Alpha Gal, and Disability Pride
S02:E38

"Useless Ticks", Alpha Gal, and Disability Pride

Episode description

The show has been on a hiatus the last couple of weeks because I’ve been dealing with some health issues mainly stemming from an Alpha Gal diagnosis and learning how to manage the symptoms and what triggers them. Since talking about the diagnosis with some individuals, one of the questions that comes up is: What purpose do ticks serve anyway? Aren’t they just parasites?

That’s an important question, but also a dangerous one. Since it’s disability pride month, I thought I’d talk about what “useless” really means, what role ticks play in the environment, how this connects with Wild Spirit Storytelling, and what Alpha Gal has to do with it and with disability and our definition of it.

We’re diving into the deep end. Put your favorite non-mammal seasonings on your popcorn and let’s get started.

Alpha Gal Resources: Alpha Gal Information (.org) The Alpha Gal Kitchen Facebook Group

Want to learn more about this show? Visit Feathermane Soul to learn about the podcast, see how you can support it and become a guest.

Download transcript (.srt)
0:00

(Transcribed by TurboScribe. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) The podcast has been on hiatus this week

0:02

while I have dealt with a constellation of

0:06

different health issues.

0:07

The bottom line is I recently received a

0:11

diagnosis of alpha-gal, which has been in

0:13

the news a lot lately.

0:15

It is a tick-borne allergy, not an

0:19

illness, but an allergy to the alpha-gal

0:22

carbohydrate molecule that's present in all mammals.

0:27

The top line that the news likes to

0:29

sensationalize is that it makes you allergic to

0:32

red meat like burgers and bacon.

0:34

But the truth is alpha-gal causes a

0:36

lot more than that, and I've been dealing

0:38

with a lot of those other symptoms.

0:41

A lot of people have said to me,

0:43

well, what good are ticks anyway?

0:45

And well, it's Disability Pride Month, and I

0:49

feel like that there might be some parallels

0:52

between the way that our society treats ticks

0:56

and the way that our society treats disabled

0:59

people.

1:00

So throw in a heaping of vegan popcorn,

1:04

and let's dive in and see what this

1:06

is all about.

1:08

You're listening to Feathermane Soul Wisdom, a podcast

1:12

for those looking to rediscover their wild spirit

1:15

in spite of life's challenges.

1:16

If you're living with a chronic illness or

1:19

neurodivergent or consider yourself disabled, and you're looking

1:23

to connect with your own inner untamed essence,

1:25

then this show is for you.

1:28

Your host is Kit Kaelstoe, Wild Spirit Storyteller.

1:31

Thanks for listening, and now on to the

1:33

episode.

1:35

Hi, and welcome back to the Feathermane Soul

1:37

Wisdom Show.

1:39

I'm Kit Kaelstoe, and this week we're talking

1:42

about alpha-gal specifically, although I admit that

1:47

since my diagnosis, I've had a lot of

1:50

thoughts about eating and food, different ways of

1:54

eating in general, eating more compassionately, and how

1:57

we can move in that direction, as well

2:00

as we're going to be talking about ticks

2:03

and what their role is in the ecosystem.

2:06

And yes, they do have a purpose, but

2:08

we're going to be tying this into Disability

2:09

Pride Month.

2:11

And lest you think I've gone too far

2:13

afield in my original message, the truth is

2:17

that all of this ties into wild spirit

2:19

storytelling and grief work, because not only is

2:23

there a lot of grief when you get

2:26

diagnosed with a food allergy, or any chronic

2:29

illness, honestly, there's also a lot of how

2:33

do we connect to the wild?

2:34

If the wild is something that can make

2:36

us sick, how do we deal with that?

2:38

So it is all connected, and this is

2:42

the type of stuff that I really like

2:43

to think about and really like to dive

2:45

into.

2:46

And so trust me when I say that

2:48

there's probably going to be many more podcasts

2:51

slicing into that bit by bit.

2:53

But again, today we're going to talk basically

2:56

about alpha-gal, we're going to talk about

2:58

ticks, and we're going to talk about Disability

3:00

Pride Month.

3:02

Let me start by discussing what alpha-gal

3:05

is.

3:07

Alpha-gal is is designated a mammalian meat

3:11

allergy.

3:12

It is a tick-induced allergy to a

3:15

molecule which happens to be a carbohydrate called

3:18

galactose A 1,3-galactose.

3:21

It's a sugar, and it's commonly known as

3:24

alpha-gal.

3:25

This sugar is found in all mammals except

3:29

for humans and some primates, and it's just

3:32

part of the family of sugars that feed

3:35

our cells and make our body work.

3:38

Products made from mammals can also contain alpha

3:41

-gal, and they include meat, so beef, pork,

3:45

lamb, that would be burgers, bacon, pork chops,

3:49

lamb chops, milk and dairy products, cheese, ice

3:54

cream, but also products you might not think

3:57

about like gelatin, medications, either with a mammal

4:02

-derived ingredient as like one of their inactive

4:05

ingredients or active ingredients, or like the gelatin

4:10

capsules.

4:11

Some of your other medicines come in capsules.

4:13

Those are often made from gelatin.

4:16

And medical products like heparin and vaccines and

4:20

even personal care products like lotion, makeup, deodorant,

4:25

shampoo, conditioner, body wash, toilet paper, many other

4:30

items.

4:31

There is an amazing amount of products due

4:36

in large part to our very industrial food

4:39

and consumer-driven product system that we have.

4:44

And no, this isn't a rant against ultra

4:46

-processed food or whatever the biggest fad is

4:49

right now.

4:49

It's just a fact of life.

4:51

We are very efficient at using most parts

4:55

of an animal that gets butchered for food.

4:59

In fact, bone char, so charred animal bones,

5:03

is used in sugar production.

5:07

It is also part of charcoal.

5:09

So something that I've been thinking about is

5:13

like my incense use.

5:15

All of this, all of these products contain

5:18

this molecule.

5:20

And if you have alpha-gal, you are

5:22

allergic to this molecule.

5:25

And what's going to happen is you're going

5:29

to have reactions.

5:30

And reactions can range from really, really bad

5:34

like sudden anaphylactic shock, which is where you

5:37

can't breathe, you suffocate to death, very bad,

5:40

no good, nobody wants.

5:42

Reactions might be itching or hives as part

5:45

of that allergic reaction.

5:47

They also could be gastrointestinal.

5:51

And it's a delayed reaction.

5:53

So it's not like food poisoning where if

5:55

you eat something that's bad, like within a

5:58

half an hour, you know it and you

6:00

can trace it right back to what you

6:01

have eaten.

6:03

In this case, reactions can take three hours,

6:06

eight hours, sometimes even longer after what you've

6:10

eaten.

6:11

Or people can be fume reactive.

6:14

So if you go to say like McDonald's

6:16

where they're cooking hamburgers, just having that in

6:18

the air can be enough to trigger your

6:20

allergy.

6:22

But about three to eight hours after you

6:24

eat, your stomach hurts really bad.

6:26

You might get all the usual GI symptoms,

6:30

gas, cramps, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, bloating, all of

6:36

the no fun stuff.

6:38

And because it happens so delayed, especially if

6:42

you don't realize you got bit by a

6:44

tick, it can take a long time to

6:47

figure out a diagnosis because it's not something

6:49

that leaps to providers minds.

6:51

Even in a place where I'm at, which

6:54

is in the Missouri Ozarks, where alpha-gal

6:55

is very prevalent, it's very much on everybody's

6:58

mind.

6:59

Even down here, like one of my biggest

7:02

frustrations for the past couple of weeks is

7:04

that my doctor is not literate about it.

7:07

And what my doctor told me is very

7:09

much not true.

7:11

And so they basically measure your allergy to

7:14

this molecule.

7:16

Anything over a certain threshold is considered a

7:19

positive.

7:20

And one of the interesting facts about this

7:23

allergy is that it's kind of like that

7:26

game show whose line is it anyway, where

7:28

the points are made up and don't matter.

7:31

Whatever you score that's a positive, you can

7:35

have a really high number and very low

7:37

reactions.

7:37

For example, you could tolerate dairy and some

7:40

of the other products and just not meat.

7:43

You can have a very low positive number

7:45

and be extremely reactive.

7:47

So there's not a real correlation there.

7:50

There may be a chance that you can

7:52

go into remission, especially if you avoid further

7:55

tick bites.

7:57

There's also a chance that it could get

7:58

worse if you have further tick bites.

8:01

And again, because all of these reactions are

8:03

delayed, it's really hard to know like, okay,

8:07

I got bit by a tick.

8:09

It's now a week later.

8:11

My symptoms are super worse.

8:12

This can take several months to manifest in

8:15

your system.

8:16

So it's a very difficult food allergy to

8:20

deal with in large part, because there's so

8:22

much misinformation about it.

8:24

And there is a certain sector of our

8:27

information ecosystem that, and I suspect it has

8:31

to do with the regions of the country

8:33

where alpha gallus more prevalent, have really kind

8:36

of glommed on to some really wild ideas

8:39

about what this is and what can cure

8:42

it.

8:42

There is no cure, what it means to

8:45

live with it.

8:46

And so it's really hard to find good

8:48

solid information.

8:49

In my case, I belong to some groups

8:52

of people who have the illness, and it's

8:56

a lot of trial and error even then,

8:58

because again, our reactions vary so differently.

9:02

Now that you know what alpha gallus is,

9:04

the question that always comes up is, well,

9:07

what purpose do ticks serve anyway?

9:11

And I understand.

9:12

I mean, ticks are primarily known as pests

9:16

and bloodsuckers.

9:17

They're known as parasites.

9:19

In fact, their actual niche is called, and

9:25

I hope I get this right, that they

9:29

are endoparasites.

9:32

I'm going to pause the recording here and

9:34

look this up just one moment.

9:36

Nope.

9:36

I got that wrong.

9:37

And I thought I did.

9:39

Ticks are obligate bloodsucking ectoparasites.

9:42

In other words, on the outside of the

9:44

body.

9:46

And you think, well, you know, golly, they

9:49

suck your blood.

9:50

What purpose do they have?

9:52

Well, in, you know, much the same as

9:57

the food web and the chain, they do

10:01

provide food for other animals.

10:02

Again, there's a lot of misinformation out there,

10:05

but a lot of animals will feed on

10:08

ticks, either ticks that land on them or

10:11

ticks that they find in the environment.

10:16

And there are, you know, guinea fowl, for

10:19

example, apparently eat ticks.

10:21

I've kept guinea fowl.

10:22

It is way more trouble, as far as

10:25

I'm concerned, than it's worth, because guinea fowl

10:28

are not as smart as chickens.

10:29

That's another show, probably.

10:32

But, you know, guinea fowl eat them.

10:35

Free ranging chickens eat them.

10:38

Reptiles, birds.

10:39

I've heard it said that opossums eat them.

10:42

I've also heard that that basically they will

10:45

eat any that land on them, but they

10:47

don't go seeking them out, which would make

10:48

sense, because it's not a big food source

10:50

for an opossum.

10:54

But, you know, what they do is they

10:58

do serve as food for other animals.

11:00

They do take part in providing some diversity

11:04

of life on our planet, because they do

11:07

carry various microorganisms and bacteria.

11:11

And whether we agree with the microorganisms and

11:16

bacteria that those ticks carry, that's kind of

11:19

relevant, because we don't get to decide their

11:23

purpose because of what they do for us.

11:27

That's pretty selfish.

11:29

And that kind of is going to get

11:30

into the third part of the show.

11:32

So they do provide some diversity of life.

11:36

They have obviously evolved to fill certain niches.

11:40

And in some ways, they do also help

11:42

to keep animal populations in check.

11:46

So too many ticks on an animal, especially

11:49

an older animal, a weak animal, a sick

11:52

animal, can be its cause of death.

11:57

So it is one way to kind of

11:59

keep balance in the ecosystem.

12:02

And again, regardless of whether we think that's

12:05

a good way to keep balance in the

12:06

ecosystem or not, certainly, it is a way

12:11

to do so with the help of this

12:15

creature.

12:19

So ticks do have a purpose.

12:23

And I think it's important when we're thinking

12:25

about the environment, when we're thinking about our

12:29

connection with the wild and our connection with

12:31

nature, it's very important to de-center ourselves.

12:36

And if we de-center ourselves from the

12:39

conversation with nature, the entire nature of that

12:43

conversation changes.

12:45

If we de-center ourselves, we're no longer

12:48

talking about what serves humanity, what is in

12:53

humanity's best interests, but rather what is in

12:56

the best interest of the planet.

12:58

Now, I am not knowledgeable enough about ticks

13:01

to make a strong argument for why ticks

13:05

are in the best interest of the planet.

13:08

Because they are not something that humans have

13:11

put here, but because they have evolved along

13:14

with the rest of life and they've evolved

13:16

to fill certain niches.

13:18

Again, I have to trust that nature in

13:21

this sense knows more than I do.

13:23

Obviously, it has a much broader picture than

13:26

I do.

13:26

And it's one of those things where we

13:29

don't know what would happen if we took

13:34

these creatures out of the ecosystem completely.

13:38

So de-centering ourselves when we're talking about

13:42

the environment means that we have to understand,

13:46

first of all, that each and every animal

13:48

and creature in this environment has a purpose.

13:51

Even if we don't agree with that purpose,

13:54

even if we don't like that purpose, even

13:56

if that purpose is harmful to us.

14:00

It's a living with mindset rather than a

14:04

dominion over mindset.

14:08

The second thing is we have to understand

14:11

that we don't know what we don't know.

14:14

And I think that's the hardest thing for

14:15

humans to understand is that we don't know

14:20

what will happen or what questions need to

14:23

ask to know what we don't know.

14:26

And so if we can live with that

14:28

ambiguity that, hey, even if it's not an

14:33

intelligent design type model, if it's more of

14:36

an evolutionary model, trial and error, more scientific

14:39

model, we have to understand that something happened.

14:44

These creatures have evolved.

14:46

They've evolved to fill a niche for a

14:48

reason.

14:49

And we just have to trust that that

14:50

reason exists.

14:52

And that's why phrases like, I don't know

14:54

why ticks exist anyway.

14:56

You know, that's why those phrases are harmful,

14:59

because as it's Disability Pride Month, those phrases

15:04

can be extended to other individuals who may

15:08

be seen as not having a functional role

15:12

as seen by the person making that statement.

15:16

So what does all this have to do

15:19

with Disability Pride Month?

15:21

Well, first of all, it's really opened my

15:25

eyes.

15:26

And I say this as somebody who thought

15:28

I was pretty well versed in disability theory

15:32

and in systemic ableism.

15:35

I worked on a thesis regarding disability liberation.

15:40

I have been disabled under multiple models, which

15:43

I've talked about in other shows for many

15:47

years now.

15:48

And I am all about accommodations, nothing about

15:52

us without us.

15:53

The fact that the Americans with Disabilities Act

15:56

needs to be strengthened quite a bit.

15:59

It needs some teeth, to be very honest

16:01

with you.

16:03

And I'm looking at getting maybe a service

16:06

animal.

16:08

And even with all of this in mind,

16:10

because I had not dealt with a food

16:15

allergy, I am ashamed to say that I

16:20

did not realize just how badly the American

16:24

food system fails people with food allergies.

16:30

So with alpha-gal, again, we're allergic to

16:34

anything derived from mammals.

16:36

If you look on a package of food,

16:39

and I'm just going to say the English

16:40

muffins, the light multigrain English muffins I've got

16:44

sitting on my counter.

16:46

I like to make breakfast sandwiches out of

16:48

them.

16:49

So there's an app that tells you what

16:51

allergens are in food.

16:53

I scan my muffins, and they are like

16:56

flashing red danger.

16:57

And I'm like, what the heck, man, it's

16:58

an English muffin.

17:00

What is wrong with this?

17:01

Well, there is a whole bunch of enrichment

17:04

in the flour.

17:06

So those enriched vitamins and minerals in the

17:08

flour actually could be animal derived.

17:11

There are natural flavors that show up.

17:14

And because those natural flavors don't have to

17:17

be disclosed, they might be animal derived.

17:20

And so a great example is chicken.

17:22

So chicken is something that is safe for

17:24

alpha-gal individuals to eat because poultry does

17:27

not contain that molecule.

17:30

However, a lot of chicken providers will say,

17:36

will tell you, or not tell you as

17:39

the case may be, that they may use

17:42

mammal derived products, juices, flavorings to inject into

17:46

the chicken to so called make it better.

17:50

That may be great for everybody else.

17:52

That's very dangerous for people with alpha-gal.

17:55

Now, I am fortunate in that I have

17:58

mostly GI symptoms, and they're mostly manageable.

18:01

I mean, hell, I've dealt with an angry

18:04

GI tract for decades.

18:06

So although now I'm wondering just how long

18:10

I've had this and not known.

18:11

But the truth is, it's pretty safe for

18:16

me to eat like those English muffins.

18:19

In fact, I'll probably have one when I'm

18:20

done recording this podcast so I can eat

18:23

some lunch.

18:25

But it also means that if you have

18:29

an allergy to mammal derived products, it's going

18:32

to really limit what you can and can't

18:34

eat.

18:35

And if we start thinking about food deserts,

18:38

which I live in one, if you start

18:40

thinking about rural populations without access to a

18:45

lot of natural or organic foods, although Walmart's

18:48

getting better.

18:50

You know, when you start to think about

18:52

that sort of thing, there really is an

18:55

accessibility, a disability issue going on with our

18:59

food supply.

19:01

And again, I was aware of this to

19:04

some extent as somebody who was trying to

19:06

eat more plant based, but I really wasn't

19:09

aware of the extent of it until I

19:10

got alpha-gal.

19:12

And you know, boy, I feel really ashamed

19:15

now because there's a lot of advocacy that

19:18

needs to be done in this area.

19:21

The other area I really find with alpha

19:24

-gal and disability is that a lot of

19:26

people don't take it seriously.

19:30

Again, because it's billed as a meat allergy,

19:33

they think that if you just avoid hamburgers

19:35

and bacon and pork chops and anything that's

19:38

obviously, you know, from a mammal, although as

19:42

I've seen in my alpha-gal group, some

19:44

people don't even know what mammals are.

19:47

They think that if you just avoid it,

19:48

it'll be fine, but you can be around

19:51

it.

19:51

There's not a cross-contamination issue.

19:54

There's not a fume reaction issue.

19:56

That basically, just don't eat meat and you'll

19:59

be okay.

20:00

And it is so much more than that.

20:01

It's so much broader than that.

20:03

And in fact, I was looking at the

20:04

CDC's recent paperwork on it.

20:07

They've got some teaching handouts.

20:09

And while they're pretty decent, they also kind

20:12

of reinforce that stereotype and that's dangerous.

20:16

Just like the idea where if your numbers

20:19

are low or your numbers are high, that

20:22

details the severity of your reaction.

20:24

That's dangerous.

20:26

So there's a lot of advocacy to be

20:28

done in, I think, broadening our vision of

20:33

disability, this Disability Pride Month, and thinking about

20:37

ways that you might not consider yourself disabled

20:41

if you have this allergy.

20:43

I know, for example, I don't consider myself

20:46

disabled because I have alpha-gal.

20:48

I consider myself disabled because I have other

20:50

medical conditions.

20:53

But the alpha-gal just kind of compounds

20:55

all of that and compounds the problem.

20:59

But we need to think about inclusion and

21:02

the way society either enables or disables people

21:06

within society.

21:09

And step away a little bit from the

21:12

label of disability liberation is only for people

21:16

who think that they're disabled.

21:18

Because a lot of people have medical conditions

21:21

but choose not to think of themselves as

21:24

disabled for a lot of different reasons.

21:26

Whether because they feel like they're doing okay.

21:29

Whether because of internalized ableism.

21:32

There's a lot that happens.

21:35

And so we really need to get away

21:39

from a rigid idea of what is and

21:41

isn't disability or disabled.

21:44

Because much like everybody's alpha-gal reactions can

21:47

be different, everybody's vision of access and equity

21:51

and ability within society to, for example, go

21:57

into a grocery store without being overwhelmed by

21:59

fumes from the deli department.

22:01

Or eat at a restaurant without worrying that

22:05

the server is going to laugh at your

22:08

allergies and they're going to try something different.

22:12

Which is a story I heard recently that

22:14

just horrified me.

22:18

And I also think it also invites us

22:21

to think about our definition of usefulness.

22:25

A lot of society believes that you are

22:29

only disabled if you can't work.

22:32

And if you can't work, then you are

22:34

a taker.

22:35

You are a parasite.

22:37

You are not useful to society.

22:38

Now I want to stop and say that

22:40

that's bullshit.

22:42

That every human being has worth.

22:44

Every human being has value.

22:47

Every human being deserves food, shelter, clothing, housing,

22:52

medical care, community care, mutual aid, support.

22:55

And none of that has any bearing on

22:59

whether a person can work or not.

23:01

Whether, you know, a person's productivity does not

23:05

define their worth.

23:07

Full stop.

23:08

End of sentence.

23:09

No asterisks.

23:12

So when we think about, you know, well,

23:15

what purpose does a tick salt, you know,

23:17

have in our environment?

23:19

Well, then the question becomes, some people wonder,

23:23

well, you know, what purpose does it serve

23:26

to support a disabled person?

23:29

And you can appeal to them by talking

23:32

about how a lot of people, if not

23:35

almost everybody, will become disabled at one point

23:37

in their life or another, whether through age,

23:40

whether through an accident, whether through an illness.

23:44

But the truth is we should not have

23:46

to do that.

23:47

We should have enough compassion and support for

23:50

one another, to want to support one another,

23:54

to want to make sure that one another

23:55

has everything that we need to survive.

24:00

And to be honest, when you look at

24:02

the amount of money that gets tossed around

24:06

by billionaires, by rich people, even by people

24:10

who are moderately well off, when you look

24:15

at that, you know, that kind of money,

24:17

you think that could do a lot of

24:19

good.

24:19

Now I'm not saying that people should forgo

24:21

their enjoyment or forgo things they like, but

24:25

if you can afford to drop $500, $1

24:29

,000 on something you collect or on some

24:33

special trinket, then the question becomes, what are

24:38

you donating to your community?

24:39

How are you supporting mutual aid posts?

24:42

Are you giving not even that same amount,

24:47

but even a tenth of that amount, just

24:49

supporting your community?

24:50

And if not, why not?

24:52

When we start to think about, when we

24:55

start to decouple worth from productivity, we start

25:00

to de-center that capitalist human mindset.

25:05

And that's just like de-centering the human

25:08

mindset from thinking about the wild or thinking

25:11

about the nature.

25:13

When we start to de-center basically common

25:18

culture and start to think of it more

25:20

as, you know, interconnected ecosystems, whether that's the

25:24

ecosystems of our environment, whether that's the ecosystems

25:27

of our body, whether that's the ecosystems of

25:31

our community.

25:32

When we start to really think about that

25:34

and realize that we're all in this together,

25:37

then it does seem really selfish to not

25:42

support disability pride, not support disability access, disability

25:49

equality, not support disabled people.

25:54

And so that's kind of where I want

25:57

to leave this episode.

25:59

Like I said, I've got a lot of

26:01

thoughts tumbling around my mind about alpha-gal,

26:05

about our environment, about how we treat certain,

26:08

you know, creatures in our environment, how we

26:10

treat ourselves and eating more compassionately.

26:14

And as somebody with a degree in ag,

26:16

kind of how that ties into our current

26:19

food production system.

26:21

Lots of stuff out there.

26:22

All of it ties into grief work and

26:26

all of it ties into wild spirit storytelling.

26:29

If you would like to know more about

26:32

how to work with wild spirit storytelling in

26:34

your life, if you would like to do

26:37

some grief work around disability or food allergies

26:40

or your neurotype, I would love to speak

26:44

with you.

26:44

I would love to support you in this.

26:46

Please visit feathermanesoul.com.

26:48

You can reach out to me through the

26:50

contact form.

26:52

If chatting works better for you and is

26:54

more accessible, you can book a call with

26:57

me.

26:58

And you know, if you're listening to my

27:00

voice, a like, a share, a subscribe goes

27:03

a really long way.

27:05

And if you really want to support the

27:07

work that I do, you can visit feathermanesoul

27:10

.com and support.

27:12

And there are different ways to donate or

27:15

just sign up for our newsletter and make

27:17

sure you get this information in your inbox

27:19

every week.

27:20

Thank you so much.

27:23

And I look forward to chatting with you

27:25

next week.

27:28

You've been listening to the Feathermane Soul Wisdom

27:31

Podcast hosted by Kit Kaelstow.

27:34

Learn more about Feathermane Soul at feathermanesoul.com.

27:38

As a wild spirit storyteller, Kit is passionate

27:41

about helping those who are neurodivergent, disabled, or

27:45

living with chronic illness rediscover their own inner

27:48

wild spirit.

27:49

Visit feathermanesoul.com to receive free gifts or

27:53

book a free call with Kit to discuss

27:55

how wild spirit storytelling can help you.

27:58

Music is Running with the Horses by Purple

28:00

Planet Music.

28:02

This podcast is hosted on the MuseTarmer Media

28:04

Network.

28:06

Find out more by visiting feathermanesoul.com and

28:10

following the links to the MuseTarmer Network.

28:13

Please don't forget to like, subscribe, or follow

28:16

wherever you're hearing my voice, or tell a

28:19

friend who may be interested.

28:20

Thank you.